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John DeBevoise:

Greetings, everyone, and welcome to another serving of Bizness Soup Talk Radio. If it’s in business, it’s Bizness Soup. I’m your host, John DeBevoise. Today, we have a recovering optometrist, Dr. Travis Zigler. He has become a master on Amazon. He and his optometrist wife created the Eye Love Cares Foundation, where they wish to heal 1 million dry eyes. They have taken their business of healing and helping people, building an audience of raving fans, YouTube, 5.5 million views, Facebook group of 20,000. That’s right, Dr. Travis Zigler will be joining us about his mission to help others and how he learned to be a pay per click expert. And you’re going to hear that and more, right here at the table on Bizness Soup, where business comes for business. Travis, welcome to this serving of Bizness Soup.

Dr. Travis Zigl…: John, I appreciate you having me on. I’m happy to be here.

John DeBevoise: It’s a pleasure. You are a self–proclaimed recovering optometrist, turned e–commerce entrepreneur. That in itself got my attention. How did that transition happen?

Dr. Travis Zigl…: Well, my wife and I were actually practicing for my uncle when we first graduated from optometry school, and we did the three things you’re not supposed to do. We quit our jobs working for my uncle, we moved across the country from Ohio to South Carolina, and then we opened up two businesses of our own, which were two practices. And whenever you open up a new practice, you get kind of bored because you’re only seeing about one patient per hour, and I came from seeing about five patients per hour, so I was a little bored.

And I came across a course on the internet called Amazing Selling Machine that taught me how to sell online and on Amazon specifically, and that was back in 2015. And two years into that, we sold one of the practices, and then three years into it, we sold the other practice and went full–time into this. And that was about three years ago, so we’ve been full–time in this e–commerce game for about three full years now, and I don’t regret a single bit of it. And I love the online space, and as much as I loved practicing, I’m happy to be what I’m doing now.

John DeBevoise: So you literally turned a blind eye to the practice and went into the online practice of e–commerce?

Dr. Travis Zigl…: A hundred percent. I don’t think that’s the only eye pun that’s going to be happening during this episode.

John DeBevoise: Well, that was the first thing I thought of when I got your bio. So what got you particularly into e–commerce and to start working with the behemoth in online marketing, and that’s Amazon? Obviously, you learned how to work within the system. What was the first thing that you sold on Amazon that you’re going, “Well, this worked. Let’s sell another one“?

Dr. Travis Zigl…: Yeah, so back in 2015 when we were starting our practices, that course came across my inbox and I bought it. And it was called Amazing Selling Machine, teaches you how to find a product, how to launch it on Amazon, and how to sell it, and pretty much how to make more sales, and then what to do with the money, as far as researching more products and coming out with more products.

John DeBevoise: So you got this course and it said, this is how you find a product. You’re going, “Well, I’m already pretty well into the optometry field.” Was that your first product that you decided to sell? Was it something related to the profession that you and your wife went through so much work to get that degree?

Dr. Travis Zigl…: Yeah, so we went into sunglasses. We were a sunglass company forever, and we still kind of are. We still have four sunglasses that we sell, just because they sell so well still without us doing any work, because we’ve built that foundation. But we started selling sunglasses, we ordered our first inventory of a hundred, we packed them in our garage, that self–proclaimed entrepreneur story. And we sent them to Amazon and they sold within seven days, all hundred of them, so we were like, “Wow, this really works.”

So we actually took money out of our practice and put it into this. We took about $20,000 to order more inventory for that product, but to also order another product as well. And so, we launched two products about two months later and they both started selling really well. And we were going into quarter four, so we had two pairs of sunglasses going into quarter four. And in that first year with just those two products, we did about 86,000 in sales, so we were pretty excited about what was happening.

John DeBevoise: So you got into the sunglasses, you were already familiar with what it takes to be in the eyecare wears, and you took on the sunglasses. Did you decide, well, let’s go with another eye–related product?

Dr. Travis Zigl…: Yeah, so we did all sunglasses for a while, and then in 2017, about two years into our journey, we decided that we wanted to start serving a person more. And we couldn’t really figure out who to serve around the sunglass market. And in our practice, we were seeing dry eye patients all the time, and these are people with irritated, dry, red eyes, itchy eyes, eyelids that are raw and irritated. And we decided we wanted to serve that person, and so we formed a Facebook group called the Dry Eye Syndrome Support Community. It’s about 14,000 strong now, but back then, we just decided to start it and just started going live on this Facebook group with absolutely nobody in it.

And what happened eventually was, Facebook’s algorithm caught up to us and it started suggesting it to other people. And ever since we started going live in that group, we’d go live usually once a week and we still do, we still release a video in there once a week, and Facebook’s algorithm just kind of took off and gathered a bunch of people in that group. And one day, somebody came to us and said, “You guys need to come out with this product because it just increased their price from $30 to $300 a month and they just made it unaffordable,” and so we went out there and researched it. And we came out with our own product, and that was our first dry eye product, and now we’re more of a dry eye company than we are a sunglass company.

John DeBevoise: You and your wife founded the Eye Love project. You wanted to heal a million dry eyes. When I nearly lost my eyesight due to stupidity in working with a grinding wheel, I became more familiar and more respectful of my eyesight, because I lost my eyesight due to the injury. And I’ve become very protective of my eyes now. But the dry eyes seem to be something that a lot of people are affected by, and I wasn’t aware of this so–called syndrome. What was it that made you take this passion in your eyes to create this Eye Love with a mission to heal a million dry eyes?

Dr. Travis Zigl…: Yeah, that’s a great story from our past. And we actually battled something within ourselves personally. We battled infertility. We were trying to have kids and they told us that we couldn’t have kids, and so we went to Western medicine–trained doctors. Now, mind you, my wife and I are Western medicine trained. We went through everything but IVF. We went through all the medications they prescribed, injections, but we didn’t do IVF or in vitro fertilization and we didn’t feel like that was right for us.

So then we actually turned around, so that was three years of battling that. And then we went to an Eastern medicine doctor, and in three months, we got pregnant. And so, it kind of led us to shift our mindset around dry eye and to start teaching people how to heal their dry eye naturally. And so, we came out with a book all about it called the Rethinking Dry Eye Treatment, and then we also came out with a bootcamp called the Dry Eye Bootcamp Challenge where we just teach people how to change one simple thing in their life per week to lead to healthier living, but to get rid of the inflammation in their body, so it will reduce their dry eye, decrease their high blood pressure, and it just heals them internally.

And we came out with this as a result of our battle with infertility and what worked for us in that field. And so, we just kind of translated that into the dry eye space, and we’ve had probably close to… Probably three to 4,000 people go through the Dry Eye Bootcamp Challenge, with amazing results. And then our products are all natural as well. We try to use as minimal preservatives as possible, and we try not to use anything that could cause harm to your eyes, because believe it or not, there’s a lot of stuff out there that doesn’t really work for your eyes, and it can actually cause harm.

And so, we really go into the research and development of our products to make sure that they’re really good, but they’re natural. And that’s kind of our goal, is to heal one million dry eyes naturally, teaching them about diet and teaching them about using specific products. And right now, we’re probably close to 10% on the way to that journey, but still got a long way to go. And we’re still hungrier than ever to reach that million, because quite honestly, there’s 40 million, just in the U.S. alone, that suffer from dry eye.

John DeBevoise: That’s interesting. And of course, you’re driven by the passion to help others. And that’s one of the things that we talk about here on Bizness Soup, is about taking a passion, doesn’t matter what it is. If you have a passion and you’re living it, in your case, in optometry, you have been helping people in their vision, and you can take anything and turn it into a business if you do it properly. You went into the Amazon space. There are a lot of rules, oftentimes, hidden rules, to playing in the field with Amazon. You have taught people how to work within that Amazon and scaling for success. What are the top things that you would advise our audience here of small business owners on how to be on Amazon and scaling for success, as you put it?

Dr. Travis Zigl…: I would say that the two things that my wife and I… we’ve pretty much mastered in our business is building an audience, and then Amazon advertising. Those are the two biggest things for our success on Amazon, is because we’ve really mastered Amazon PPC. Do I know everything? No, but I know a lot about Amazon PPC and Amazon ads because that’s what’s propelled our growth, that’s how we’ve reached new customers, that’s how we’ve maintained our sales across all our other products, because if somebody comes searching for our brand name, they’ll see all of our products we offer due to the Amazon ads and how we run them.

But the key to any business, I believe, is building an audience. Once you build an audience of a person that you really want to serve, it’s very easy to launch products and launch whatever you want, because if you serve somebody, there’s the law of reciprocity. If you serve them for free, they’re bound to buy something from you to reciprocate that service. And that’s what we’ve seen over and over again with all the free content that we put out there, is that people reciprocate it back by purchasing our products. And we try to push them over to Amazon. So Amazon loves two things, of course, you spending your money on Amazon ads, but the second thing they love is you sending them new customers. And so, if you send people from off the platform onto the platform, Amazon loves that and will give you a big boost as a result from doing that.

John DeBevoise: When you started specializing and being able to understand how to do the pay–per–click, or the PPC, you’re talking about boosting, what is it that you do to boost your presence on Amazon, to get more recognition? And is it utilizing the YouTube presence that you have?

Dr. Travis Zigl…: Yeah, so we have a pretty decent YouTube presence. I’d say the best presence that we have is the Facebook group still. It’s only 13 to 14,000 people and our YouTube is about 46,000 subscribers on that channel, but our Facebook group and then our email list. Our email list is, at the time of this recording, about 65,000. And it’s engaged, and so it’s not just a passive email list. It’s a very engaged email list because we send a lot of stuff. They don’t have call to actions. We give them a peek into our life and we don’t necessarily always have a call to action, so that increases our deliverability. So a combination of the Facebook group, email, and the YouTube channel, all pointing towards Amazon, really gives good signals to Amazon for this external traffic.

And then we also write blogs, and so we write one blog a week. That’s the video that we do. So we write the blog, and then we come out with the video corresponding with that blog, and we release it all over our channels. And so, the blog also points to Amazon to purchase. And I know experienced business minds are like, “Why would you send people from your blog over to Amazon?” It’s because Amazon loves that and they love getting that juice, that boost, and then we try to get them back on our website to purchase after that. But the first goal is always to get them on Amazon. And then Amazon’s conversion rate is 10 times higher than our website conversion rate, so that’s why we try to get them to Amazon.

John DeBevoise: Now, with your marketing, you have it going from your website to Amazon, and then back to your website and the Facebook groups. Do you try and get people to join the Facebook group so that you can garner, from the business aspect, their personal information, such as their email, so that you can be communicating through the group and communicate through the email as a result of getting them to volunteer that information on the Facebook group?

Dr. Travis Zigl…: The Facebook group is there because there’s billions of users on Facebook, and we want to be known as the dry eye experts in the space. So once Facebook shows the group to somebody, they join, and then our goal once they get on the group, is just to serve them. And we’ve had every question asked in that group and we’ve answered every single question asked in that group, on our blog. And so, when somebody asks the same question over and over again, we have a blog, we have a video. So from the Facebook group, we get them over to our blog post, and in our blog, that’s where we try to get their email address. They’re, of course, going to be on a pixel audience list in Facebook as a result of being on our blog. And then we try to get other information too, and of course, try to get a purchase out of them as well.

John DeBevoise: Something that you have on your blog, or free information that would be an indirect sale, where you’re giving me information. I might ask a question of use, that though I don’t wear contacts, I know a lot of people that do, and they work in the industry that I’m familiar with, outdoors. They might ask a question like, how do I deal with dust and debris that is always in the air and I’m wearing contacts? How do I keep that from occurring other than wearing goggles?

Dr. Travis Zigl…: So is that a question for the podcast, or do you want me to go through an example?

John DeBevoise: That’s a question. Is that something that might occur on the blog? They’re saying, hey, I work in an environment. I could be a construction worker, or in my case, agricultural worker, and I suffer with getting stuff in my eyes. How do I deal with that if I’m wearing contacts? Is that a question they might have?

Dr. Travis Zigl…: I was trying to put my doctor hat on or my business owner hat on, so I was kind of confused there. But I’ll do business owner hat first, and then if you really want me to answer it, I can. But the business owner side of me says that, yes, exactly. So the big problem I see with a lot of business owners is that they are obsessed with talking about their product, and nobody gives a crap about their product. People want to know what problem your product solves. We talk about what problem our product solves on the blog, and so that example you just gave about, I have a ranch and I’m wearing contacts and it’s dusty, how do I keep my contact lenses from drying out, that would be an example of a blog that we have called seven tips to keep your contact lenses from drying out. And so, if you came to me with that question, I’d send you over to that blog.

John DeBevoise: So that might be something that somebody might ask of you and you have an answer for that. So you take this information that empowers them to get a solution to a problem that exists, and that’s one of the best drivers of commerce, is solve a problem and give them an opportunity. Is this where you give them a direct, redirect sale over to Amazon, and if you click on this link, you’ll get a discount, if at all?

Dr. Travis Zigl…: Yeah, so what we’ll do is, we’ll go back to this example, so seven tips to keep your contact lenses from drying out. Tip number one, make sure your eyelids are clean, and our main product is an eyelid cleanser, then we go on to explain why cleaner eyelids lead to more moisturized eyes. So we-

John DeBevoise: There is an eyelid cleaner?

Dr. Travis Zigl…: Yep, so you take it. I actually have it right here. I know people can’t see this at home as they’re listening to this, but you just take this, you close your eyes, and you spray it right on, just like that. And then that’s going to help your eyelids function better. And your eyelids are responsible for putting oil out onto the eyelid, and so that oil on the eyelid keeps your eyes comfortable, and so to purchase this eyelid cleanser, click here to purchase it on Amazon now.

That would be tip number one, is our product based, and the problem that it solves and how it solves it, and then click here to purchase. Then number two would be like, switch to daily disposable contact lenses, nothing to do with our product. Number three, make sure, if you don’t have dailies, use this solution. And so, we just kind of go down the list, and then maybe one to two to three of those will be our product, and then we’ll tell them to go click over there to Amazon.

John DeBevoise: And then that would be the direct over to Amazon where they could buy it in the one–click purchase, as we are all so familiar with. And everybody’s happy, and Amazon, especially.

When you advertise on Amazon, what’s the secret sauce to that? Regardless of the business, what was it that you found that worked the best for you in advertising? And is there a budget that I should be spending the minimum amount on?

Dr. Travis Zigl…: So that’s great three questions there. And the answer to the first one is, the first Amazon ad that you need to be running is a brand–defensive ad, just going in there, putting your listing up, and then advertising on your brand name. It doesn’t matter how big or small you are as a business. People are searching for your brand name, unless you’re brand new. But even if you’re brand new and your name is out there a little bit, people are still going to be searching your name.

But if you don’t advertise on your brand name, somebody else will, and so you got to be careful with that and you have to make sure that you’re the one that’s winning that area. So if you go to Amazon and type in my brand name, it’s Hydrate, or Eye Love, either one… Eye Love is easier to remember. But if you type that in, you’re going to see all the products that we offer. And I don’t want anybody else taking that space, and if somebody is, they’re going to be paying a lot of money to take up that space for me. So a brand–defensive campaign is one of the easiest ads you can run, and it’s very profitable and it pushes away all your competitors to make sure you’re showing up.

John DeBevoise: Interesting. I wasn’t aware of the brand defense advertising program.

Dr. Travis Zigl…: Yeah, and you can do that on Google, Bing, whatever advertising platform you’re on. Just, it’s a great way to keep people top of mind, because somebody else will be advertising on your keyword if you’re not.

And so, the second one is what’s called keyword–based advertisement. Keyword–based advertisement is simply, what is your ideal customer looking for on Amazon that you need to be showing up for? And so, we sell eyelid wipes, and eyelid wipes are just like they sound. They’re little wipes that you take out of a pack, you wash your eyelids with, and you throw them away. Pretty simple. So people that are on Amazon searching for eyelid wipes, they’re typing things like eyelid wipes, eye wipes.

But the problem that your product solves, they’re also looking for that, so they’re looking for dry eyes, they’re looking for styes, things like that, and so you want to show up for that, and you want to figure out what those words are, and that’s done through research. And you just want to think about the problem that you’re trying to solve, and then research all the words associated with that, and that’s what you want to advertise for. And then you’ll see very quickly what words are working and what words aren’t, and then you turn some off, you turn some up, you turn some down, you turn some back on again.

So those are kind of the two basic advertisements that I recommend for Amazon. And then there’s other ways that you can advertise on other people’s listings. So if you have a big competitor in the space and they get a lot of traffic, you can actually put your product on their listing and pay for that, and that’s called a product–targeting ad. So you’re on their listing. So those are kind of the three main ads that I recommend.

And then as far as the budget is concerned, I always recommend you spending at least 20% of your revenue on advertisement to build up either your email list, to get people back on your blog, and then of course, to sell on Amazon. So what I recommend is, whatever your revenue is on Amazon, take 20% of that, 10 to 20%, depending on how aggressive you want to be, and then put that back into advertisement the next month. And that’s the same with Shopify or any other website that you’re doing. Take 10 to 20% at least, and put it back in to creating that audience, to getting your blogs to more visitors.

We’ve been doing this for about three years now, and we’ve consistently put back in 25%, so we’re very aggressive, and that’s led us to have… Our blog gets 150,000 visitors a month now, and three years ago, it got zero. And our email list is 65,000. Like I stated earlier, our YouTube following is 46. Our Facebook group is 13,000. It’s because we’ve committed to 25%. Let’s say, our revenue last month was a hundred thousand dollars, for simplicity, then we take 25,000 the next month and put it all back into advertisement. So we do budget, but then eventually, you get to a point where you don’t need to budget because your ads become so efficient, and especially on Amazon. We have a budget of about $2,000 a day on Amazon right now, but we only spend about $1,300 because their ads are so efficient.

John DeBevoise: There’s all these rumors that float around about, Amazon gobbles up your client list and they will undersell you or take your product. Is that a true fact, that they will… if you’re doing so well, that they’ll go in and they’ll create their own eyecare or find a better source?

Dr. Travis Zigl…: If you ask Jeff Bezos, he’ll say, “No,” but yes, they do.

John DeBevoise: They do.

Dr. Travis Zigl…: Yeah. So they look in the market, and you can see this by all of Amazon’s private label brands. But Amazon is not the only person that does this. Walmart does it, CVS does it, Target does it. They all-

John DeBevoise: Costco, yeah.

Dr. Travis Zigl…: … do it. Costco does it. They all have their own private label brands. And it’s a result of you putting your product in there, them seeing it sell really well, so they’re going to come out with their own version of it. And so, that’s where building an audience and branding is so important, and just make sure that you continue to build that audience and you continue to serve that audience.

John DeBevoise: And building the brand and serving that audience involves the Facebook groups, the advertising on Amazon, the presence there, as well as coming up with solutions with your blog and your YouTube channel, staying in front of your audience consistently so that you’re always in the wheel, as I call it. They’re always seeing or hearing something from you as opposed to every month, they might be seeing you once or twice a week with solutions to a problem, and in your case, dry eyes.

Dr. Travis Zigl…: Yeah, and so I love how you just said that because you always need to have top–of–mind awareness, or TOMA, for your ideal customer, and so we always have Facebook ads running to our existing customer base. And it’s not to sell them anything, it’s to get them back on the blog and keep them engaged with our brand, to never stop seeing our faces. The people that are listening to this can’t see it, but you can see this. With the background of our wallpaper, we’ve had this for three years and it’s so consistent that they’re used to seeing us like that, so they become so familiar with us. And we advertise tons of blogs to our warm traffic, to our hot traffic, people that have bought from us, to get them engaged, to watch more videos, to read more blog posts, to learn about new products and how that can solve other issues that they might have, and so we’re always top–of–mind awareness.

Now, what you said there though, could overwhelm somebody. I got to do email list, Facebook group, YouTube, and Amazon. How am I going to do all this? It starts with just one thing. Ours started with Facebook groups. And we started building that Facebook group, and then once people started asking a lot of questions and we were repeating our answers over and over again, we created our blog. You couldn’t host videos on our blog through Facebook, so then we came up with our YouTube channel. And so, the YouTube videos hosted, our blog contents created, and we still have the Facebook group though. And then, well, we have this blog, so why don’t we just start collecting email addresses? And so, it was one step at a time. And the key thing is, know where your customers are and then do what you want to do, because if you don’t want to do it, you’re not going to do it. I’m on Facebook every day, I’m on YouTube every day, so those are the two platforms we chose to go after.

John DeBevoise: You and your wife, you spent a lot of time and money getting to the degrees and the profession of choice being optometrist, and then you decided that that wasn’t good enough for you, you wanted to be entrepreneurs and work 24/7. As a business owner, in scaling businesses, is there anything different that you would do now from what you did then, and how would you advise other people that want to get out on their own and do it your way, the new way?

Dr. Travis Zigl…: No, I don’t regret anything that I did. Now, my optometry degree is why I’m here. I wouldn’t have met my wife without my optometry degree. So we did meet in school and we are still paying off that school, so that’s always fun too. But what would I tell somebody that’s just getting started is, “It will be a grind at the beginning.” Starting any new business is a grind. We had two practices and we were starting this business, so we’d wake up at 6:00 AM. We wake up at 5:00 AM now, but we’d wake up at 6:00 AM, we’d work until about 9:00 AM, and then we’d go see patients from 10:00 until about 7:00, 10:00 AM to 7:00 PM, and then we’d come home and we’d work more from 7:00 to 9:00, we’d go to bed, and we’d do it all over the next day.

We did that for a solid year, and the reason we did it is, we didn’t have kids. We had just moved to South Carolina, so we didn’t know that many people yet, and we wanted to build something that created freedom for us. It was the why. We wanted to help a million dry eye sufferers naturally, we wanted the location and the time freedom that online gives you, whereas in practice, it does not. So we were grinding, and now, I work probably close to 10 hours a week in our business. And I have a second business as well that helps people sell on Amazon, and I work about maybe 15 hours in that business. And I’m the CEO role on both of them, so I’m here to cast the visions, the vision of both our companies. But I only work about 25 hours a week because we have kids now and we want to spend time with them.

And my wife is the COO of one of the companies, and then I have a friend that’s the COO of the other. After we grinded it out in those first couple of years, we’ve been able to hire teams now, and so we have a team. There’s six of us in our online business over here, and then there’s three of them in the agency for helping people sell on Amazon. And now, when I build a business, I’m completely delegating everything. I don’t want to do anything hands–on unless I want to do it. And I just pursue my passions now, and as I pursue my passions, all the businesses are getting bigger as a result of me focusing on my superpower and not doing the day–to–day stuff like I did in the past. But it took a while to get there. I mean, we’re five years into this journey and it took us a while just to start delegating things. And we’re still working on that. We still do a lot in the business, but we’re still working on that delegation muscle.

John DeBevoise: Excellent. And with the other business, you consult others that want to sell on Amazon. When I pick up the phone and I go, “Travis, help me sell,” do I already have a product, or am I going, “Hey, I want to find something to sell. Can you show me what to sell“?

Dr. Travis Zigl…: Yeah, so there’s plenty of people doing that. So I don’t teach people what product to find and how to get started with this, just because there’s plenty of courses out there, but I’d be happy to say, “Go check out this course, because this is how I got started and this is how you can get started too.” That’s not my superpower. I work with businesses and brands that are more established, and that’s what our agency does, is we’ll actually take a brand that’s more established and help them make more sales on Amazon. And so, the minimum to work with us, we actually have a cutoff of 50,000 per month. You have to be doing more than that to work with us.

And then if you’re doing under that, we actually have options for you. I have a free Amazon advertising course for those that are just getting started on Amazon. I have a paid Amazon advertising course for those that want to actually get in and actually automate a little bit more of it, and then we can do it for you. And so, we have different tiers, depending on what level you’re at.

But the reason we started that agency is because we had so many people coming to us and asking us, “You guys have had so much success on Amazon. Could you help me with this?” I knew that I didn’t want to do it, but I had a friend, one of my best friends from college. He was my best man at my wedding. He was transitioning from South Korea to Mexico, to move, and he didn’t have a job when he moved, and so we just decided to start the agency.

And now, we’re pulling in another friend from college. Our goal in 2021 is to get him out of his job and to become full–time in the agency. And so, we’re creating this kind of lifestyle agency because it’s all friends, but we’re all really good at Amazon. And that’s because we’ve all ran businesses in Amazon and we’ve either gotten rid of those, sold them, consolidated them, and now we’re focused just on the agency. So we do everything in Eye Love, my brand, and we’ll test things out over there, and if it works, we’ll take it over to the agency. So it’s actually a really synergistic kind of vibe between the two companies, and they work well together.

John DeBevoise: So in closing, you work with businesses, such as my audience, who are existing business owners. And as a result of them listening to this, they may be able to take their product and expand what they’re already doing and put it onto Amazon. But they really don’t know how to do it, they can go through BizSoup and contact you and learn, what are the tips, tools, and techniques to putting their product that they’re already selling, could be through a brick and mortar or through their own other e–commerce site, and they can learn to expand their sales more through the training programs that you have, and perhaps even use your services to expand that growth revenue.

Dr. Travis Zigl…: You nailed it right on the head. I don’t even need to expand upon that because it was so well said.

John DeBevoise: Then I will say this, Travis, I want to thank you for being on this serving of Bizness Soup, educating us with your tips, tools, and techniques on how to do business in the Amazon. The world’s longest river, folks. It’s also the biggest e–commerce one out there. And Travis, you have explained to us how to navigate those waters, literally, from your company and your foundation with Eye Love, and also how to take my product and expand it onto Amazon. I can’t thank you enough. Dr. Travis Zigler, thanks for being on this serving of Bizness Soup.

Dr. Travis Zigl…: Thanks, John.

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